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Application-Layer Traffic Optimization (Active WG)
Tsv Area: Martin Duke, Magnus Westerlund | 2008-Nov-12 —  
Chairs
 
 


IETF-108 alto minutes

Session 2020-07-27 1410-1550: Room 8 - Audio stream - alto chatroom

Minutes

minutes-108-alto-01 minutes



          ----- AGENDA & MATERIAL -------------------------------------------
          
          IETF 108, Virtual Meeting
          ALTO WG, Mon Jul 27, 2020 14:10 - 15:50
          
          14:10 - 14:15   5"   Chair slides
          14:16 - 14:26  10"   Unified Properties, Sabine Randriamasy [1]
          14:27 - 14:35   8"   Performance metrics, Richard Yang [2]
          14:36 - 14:41   5"   CDNI, Jensen Zhang [3]
          14:42 - 14:52  10"   Path vector, Kai Gao [4]
          14:53 - 15:50  57"   Recharter discussion
          
          [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-12
          [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-performance-metrics/
          [3]
          https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-alto-cdni-request-routing-alto-12
          [4] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-path-vector/
          
          Slides
          https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/session/alto
          
          ----- ATTENDANCE: 40-43 people -------------------------------------------
          Bluesheet:
          https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/bluesheets/bluesheets-108-alto-202007271410-00.txt
          WG Chairs: Vijay Gurbani, Jan Seedorf
          Area Director: Martin Duke
          
          Minute takers: Sabine Randriamasy, Qiao Xiang
          
          ----- ACRONYMS AND NAMES USED IN THE MINUTES
          -------------------------------------------
          CX Chunshan Xiong
          DL Danny Lachos
          JS Jan Seedorf
          JZ Jensen Zhang
          KG Kai Gao
          MD Martin Duke
          RY Richard Yang
          SR Sabine Randriamasy
          VG Vijay Gurbani
          
          APM     ALTO Performance Cost Metrics (WG draft)
          CDNI    Content Delivery Network Interconnection (CDNI) Request Routing:
          CDNI
                               Footprint and Capabilities Advertisement using ALTO
                               (WG draft)
          PV      Path Vector (WG draft)
          UP      Unified Properties for the ALTO protocol  (WG draft)
          EG      e.g.
          
          ----- MINUTES -------------------------------------------
          
          ----- 0. Chair slides
          
          Overall document status: cost calendar and SSE are in RFC editor. CDNI
          has passed WGLC. Unified properties is in WGLC.
          
          The focus of the WG is to finalize the charter items. Right now things
          are going well. unified properties is in WGLC, and the chairs things path
          vector and performance metrics are also ready for entering WGLC. However,
          due to their dependency on unified properties, the chairs and the AD
          decide to hold them from WGLC until unified properties passes WGLC.
          
          In addition, this meeting will also discuss rechartering. The chairs
          are happy to see the discussion and energy on the mailing list for
          rechartering items.
          VG on the ALTO rechartering disc kick-off. The goal is to get a sense,
          as meant in RFC2418, (see slide 7: does charter address relevant
          issues for the Internet community? Are goals specific and achievable
          (in reasonable time) ? Does the WG have the expertise ? ) Goal is not
          to take a re-charter decision during IETF 108 but open the discussion.
          The proposed stuff should be achievable. So expertise and energy is
          needed in WG
          
          
          ----- 1. Unified Properties:
          Sabine introduces the key design update and text update in the draft. In
          particular, the definition of "defining information resource" is
          introduced. The draft is in WGLC until August 7.
          
          Vijay: the draft is fairly mature.
          Jan: people are encouraged to read the document and if there is any
          question, please send to auhors. SR adds 2 other drafts depend on UP so
          UP needs to be clear.
          
          
          ----- 2. Performance Metrics:
          
          Richard introduces the key design updates from v10 to v12 to address
          key comments from 107 meeting: (1) how to choose types of metrics =>
          ALTO provides guidance, not measurement framework, and 4 types of
          guidance are chosen; (2) how to conform to rfc6390 => define metrics
          in the document by defining metric name, metric description, units of
          measurment and measurement points, and provide context information for
          coarse-grained information such as routing system information; (3) how to
          handle different statistics => provide complete statistic by adding stddev
          and stdvar and (4) how to convey freshness => use HTTP Last-Modified.
          
          Vijay: after the minor edits suggested by the authors, this document is
          ready for WGLC after UP.
          
          
          ----- 3. CDNI:
          
          Jensen presents the key changes from v11 to v12: (1) generalize media
          types and attribute names to make FCI a special case, and (2) update
          sections related to unified properties, such as representing footprint
          objects as property map entities and representing CDNI capabilities as
          property map entity properties.
          
          Vijay: this document also depends on unified properties.
          No questions so this draft will move ahead.
          
          
          ----- 4. Path vector:
          
          Kai presents the updates and status of this draft. This draft is waiting
          to start WGLC, depending on unified properties. Key updates in v11
          includes text updates on the motivation example of flow scheduling,
          the discussion on ephemeral ANE and persistent ANE, and to be in sync
          with the unified properties draft. The presented design updates now
          support non-ephemeral ANEs, as it was the case before, and extend the
          application scope initially restricted to flow scheduling, to paths
          including persistent ANEs.
          
          Vijay: PV is a major deliverable of the first recharter, and should start
          WGLC after or in parallel (TBD) with unified properties. If it is ready,
          the chairs will issue a WGLC.
          
          
          ----- Recharter discussion:
          - Slides: Overview
          https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-alto-alto-re-charter-overview-00
          
          Richard presents the recharter overview slides. The current ALTO
          high-level goals is to provide network information to application in
          an abstraction that simplify complex network information. Its bigger
          context is network-application integration. The current ALTO framework
          and its deployment is reviewed.
          
          Following the guidances of AD (Martin), i.e., relevance, review
          and feasibility, the discussion on recharter is organised based on
          use cases (cellular, mEC, huge data, automation, interdomain, ALTO
          extension) and structure (abstractions, transport services, backend
          and server-to-server). A total of 16 1-page presentations are prepared,
          but only 7 are presented due to the time.
          
          - Slides: 1Slider for proposed extensions
          https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-alto-one-slide-alto-extensions-for-recharter-discussion-03
          
          The 7 presented ones are:
          
          (1) (Tencent and China Mobile) MoWIE: network information exposure
          framework for cellular networks (e.g., ABR for cloud gaming, video QoE
          prediction, and TCP perform optimization);
          (2) (Telefonica) Using ALTO to determine service edge;
          (3) (T-Mobile) ETSI ZSM use case
          (4) (Tsinghua U and Shenzhen U): Deliver functions to edge over ALTO;
              Richard comments that CDNI is a good starting point for this item.
          (5) (ESNet, Caltech, CERN): ALTO extensions for flexible resource
          information and interaction models are needed to support huge data in
          the SENSE project;
          (6) (Telefonica) ALTO extension to support BGP communities
          (7) (UNICAMP) Multidomain ALTO services
          (12) (Tencent / China Mobile) In-band and out-of-band network information
          exposure
          (16) (T-Mobile) ALTO automation extension
          
          The 9 unpresented ones are:
          (8) (Tongji U/Sichuan U) Predictive throughput for TCP reactive flows
          (9) (Tongji U) Flow-based network information query
          (10) (Nokia) ALTO services extension supporting cost context
          (11) (Yale) Generic query language extension for ALTO
          (13) (Yale) ALTO transport extension supporting HTTP/2
          (14) (Tongji U) ALTO transport extension with multipart
          (15) (Telefonica) Automatic derivation of ALTO information from southbound
          
          
          --- Discussion:
          
          Vijay: generic query extension seems interesting.
          Andre Bondi (chat channel): I think it would be useful to describe how
          metrics tie back to use cases and how they inform us about network usage
          and use case impact.
          
          Vijay said we should open-up the floor to other ideas. Future meeting
          should be purely on re chartering.
          Martin Duke objected that we cannot take 16 drafts as milestones.
          Vijay/Jan/Martin agree on limiting to 3-5 re-chartering items.
          
          Vijay/Jan: Instead of waiting for next IETF, we need an interim meeting
          to tie down 3-5 deliverables?
          
          Lyle Bertz: Is this correct? 1. narrow down work (combine by themes)
          2. try to recharter prior to the next IETF meeting.
          
          Martin: The next deliverable is a draft charter, which requires some
          downsize select and consensus gathering.
          
          Vijay and other attendants agree an interim meeting would be helpful .
          
          



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