Alto Status PagesApplication-Layer Traffic Optimization (Active WG)
Tsv Area: Martin Duke, Magnus Westerlund | 2008-Nov-12 —Chairs:
IETF-108 alto minutes
Session 2020-07-27 1410-1550: Room 8 - Audio stream - alto chatroom
----- AGENDA & MATERIAL ------------------------------------------- IETF 108, Virtual Meeting ALTO WG, Mon Jul 27, 2020 14:10 - 15:50 14:10 - 14:15 5" Chair slides 14:16 - 14:26 10" Unified Properties, Sabine Randriamasy  14:27 - 14:35 8" Performance metrics, Richard Yang  14:36 - 14:41 5" CDNI, Jensen Zhang  14:42 - 14:52 10" Path vector, Kai Gao  14:53 - 15:50 57" Recharter discussion  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-12  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-performance-metrics/  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-alto-cdni-request-routing-alto-12  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-path-vector/ Slides https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/session/alto ----- ATTENDANCE: 40-43 people ------------------------------------------- Bluesheet: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/bluesheets/bluesheets-108-alto-202007271410-00.txt WG Chairs: Vijay Gurbani, Jan Seedorf Area Director: Martin Duke Minute takers: Sabine Randriamasy, Qiao Xiang ----- ACRONYMS AND NAMES USED IN THE MINUTES ------------------------------------------- CX Chunshan Xiong DL Danny Lachos JS Jan Seedorf JZ Jensen Zhang KG Kai Gao MD Martin Duke RY Richard Yang SR Sabine Randriamasy VG Vijay Gurbani APM ALTO Performance Cost Metrics (WG draft) CDNI Content Delivery Network Interconnection (CDNI) Request Routing: CDNI Footprint and Capabilities Advertisement using ALTO (WG draft) PV Path Vector (WG draft) UP Unified Properties for the ALTO protocol (WG draft) EG e.g. ----- MINUTES ------------------------------------------- ----- 0. Chair slides Overall document status: cost calendar and SSE are in RFC editor. CDNI has passed WGLC. Unified properties is in WGLC. The focus of the WG is to finalize the charter items. Right now things are going well. unified properties is in WGLC, and the chairs things path vector and performance metrics are also ready for entering WGLC. However, due to their dependency on unified properties, the chairs and the AD decide to hold them from WGLC until unified properties passes WGLC. In addition, this meeting will also discuss rechartering. The chairs are happy to see the discussion and energy on the mailing list for rechartering items. VG on the ALTO rechartering disc kick-off. The goal is to get a sense, as meant in RFC2418, (see slide 7: does charter address relevant issues for the Internet community? Are goals specific and achievable (in reasonable time) ? Does the WG have the expertise ? ) Goal is not to take a re-charter decision during IETF 108 but open the discussion. The proposed stuff should be achievable. So expertise and energy is needed in WG ----- 1. Unified Properties: Sabine introduces the key design update and text update in the draft. In particular, the definition of "defining information resource" is introduced. The draft is in WGLC until August 7. Vijay: the draft is fairly mature. Jan: people are encouraged to read the document and if there is any question, please send to auhors. SR adds 2 other drafts depend on UP so UP needs to be clear. ----- 2. Performance Metrics: Richard introduces the key design updates from v10 to v12 to address key comments from 107 meeting: (1) how to choose types of metrics => ALTO provides guidance, not measurement framework, and 4 types of guidance are chosen; (2) how to conform to rfc6390 => define metrics in the document by defining metric name, metric description, units of measurment and measurement points, and provide context information for coarse-grained information such as routing system information; (3) how to handle different statistics => provide complete statistic by adding stddev and stdvar and (4) how to convey freshness => use HTTP Last-Modified. Vijay: after the minor edits suggested by the authors, this document is ready for WGLC after UP. ----- 3. CDNI: Jensen presents the key changes from v11 to v12: (1) generalize media types and attribute names to make FCI a special case, and (2) update sections related to unified properties, such as representing footprint objects as property map entities and representing CDNI capabilities as property map entity properties. Vijay: this document also depends on unified properties. No questions so this draft will move ahead. ----- 4. Path vector: Kai presents the updates and status of this draft. This draft is waiting to start WGLC, depending on unified properties. Key updates in v11 includes text updates on the motivation example of flow scheduling, the discussion on ephemeral ANE and persistent ANE, and to be in sync with the unified properties draft. The presented design updates now support non-ephemeral ANEs, as it was the case before, and extend the application scope initially restricted to flow scheduling, to paths including persistent ANEs. Vijay: PV is a major deliverable of the first recharter, and should start WGLC after or in parallel (TBD) with unified properties. If it is ready, the chairs will issue a WGLC. ----- Recharter discussion: - Slides: Overview https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-alto-alto-re-charter-overview-00 Richard presents the recharter overview slides. The current ALTO high-level goals is to provide network information to application in an abstraction that simplify complex network information. Its bigger context is network-application integration. The current ALTO framework and its deployment is reviewed. Following the guidances of AD (Martin), i.e., relevance, review and feasibility, the discussion on recharter is organised based on use cases (cellular, mEC, huge data, automation, interdomain, ALTO extension) and structure (abstractions, transport services, backend and server-to-server). A total of 16 1-page presentations are prepared, but only 7 are presented due to the time. - Slides: 1Slider for proposed extensions https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-alto-one-slide-alto-extensions-for-recharter-discussion-03 The 7 presented ones are: (1) (Tencent and China Mobile) MoWIE: network information exposure framework for cellular networks (e.g., ABR for cloud gaming, video QoE prediction, and TCP perform optimization); (2) (Telefonica) Using ALTO to determine service edge; (3) (T-Mobile) ETSI ZSM use case (4) (Tsinghua U and Shenzhen U): Deliver functions to edge over ALTO; Richard comments that CDNI is a good starting point for this item. (5) (ESNet, Caltech, CERN): ALTO extensions for flexible resource information and interaction models are needed to support huge data in the SENSE project; (6) (Telefonica) ALTO extension to support BGP communities (7) (UNICAMP) Multidomain ALTO services (12) (Tencent / China Mobile) In-band and out-of-band network information exposure (16) (T-Mobile) ALTO automation extension The 9 unpresented ones are: (8) (Tongji U/Sichuan U) Predictive throughput for TCP reactive flows (9) (Tongji U) Flow-based network information query (10) (Nokia) ALTO services extension supporting cost context (11) (Yale) Generic query language extension for ALTO (13) (Yale) ALTO transport extension supporting HTTP/2 (14) (Tongji U) ALTO transport extension with multipart (15) (Telefonica) Automatic derivation of ALTO information from southbound --- Discussion: Vijay: generic query extension seems interesting. Andre Bondi (chat channel): I think it would be useful to describe how metrics tie back to use cases and how they inform us about network usage and use case impact. Vijay said we should open-up the floor to other ideas. Future meeting should be purely on re chartering. Martin Duke objected that we cannot take 16 drafts as milestones. Vijay/Jan/Martin agree on limiting to 3-5 re-chartering items. Vijay/Jan: Instead of waiting for next IETF, we need an interim meeting to tie down 3-5 deliverables? Lyle Bertz: Is this correct? 1. narrow down work (combine by themes) 2. try to recharter prior to the next IETF meeting. Martin: The next deliverable is a draft charter, which requires some downsize select and consensus gathering. Vijay and other attendants agree an interim meeting would be helpful .